How To Master The Art of Storytelling Interview with Norman Bell

Hello Unleashes!

Welcome to another episode of season 9 Unleash Your Focus.This season, season 9 specifically is about the experts.

What makes them the expert in their field? What is that niche or that expertise that they have that they can share with you?

But most importantly, what are they sharing with you in this upcoming season and currently this episode that you can implement in your business to help you in your business.

Now, today, I have a very, very special guest. His name is Norman, and he is based in Seattle.

Norman is a storyteller, and he is also a presentation coach, an award-winning speaker of theatre and film actor. And he's also an author of a book called The story powered speaker: how to own the stage and enchant your audience.

I'm very excited for Norman to be on our podcast today. He is very passionate about helping purpose driven entrepreneurs and organisations communicate the story and message more effectively, so that you can connect with the audience on an emotional level.

00:02 Norman

I am doing good. Thank you for having me, Joy. How are you doing today?

01:08 Joy

I'm fantastic. Thank you very much. It's happening we have spring in New Zealand. So it's all good. You are based in the States?

01:16 Norman

Yes. I'm here in Seattle, Washington here in the States. Yes.

01:20 Joy

Can you tell people a little bit about you? Where did you grow up? Where did you come from?

01:25 Norman

te of film fame. In the early: 2000

04:04 Joy

That is amazing. I love that. So you say obviously, you've you well-traveled? And do you think that maybe at that moment, you didn't think of it? But do you think that traveling may be formed as a storyteller? Because if, if I think back, like, I've also traveled a bit here and there, not as much as you, but I lived in America, and I'm originally from South Africa, living in New Zealand.

So I've had my country shifts, and just thinking like, some of my best stories is about me traveling. Do you think that can help you with your storytelling mission?

04:38 Norman

That's a really good question. I think definitely. Yeah, like, because when you travel, like if you're sitting at home, and just going to work and coming home, then there's not as much opportunity for stuff to happen and when you're traveling, like any person's trip is is going to be a mini hero's journey of sorts, right? There's going to be amazing days where like you see some of the most amazing things you've ever seen in your life. And then we can get into this a little bit, a lot of the best stories are really about when things don't work out the way you want them to. And you get into some serious trouble, like the time when I was in Thailand, and I lost my passport, and I thought I was going to miss my plane back to Japan where I was living. So those are the ones that that people tend to get hooked into. So, yeah, traveling has definitely contributed to my storytelling.

05:33 Joy

What do you think is something that hooks people into listening to a story? Because I mean, we all know that there can be some terrible storytellers out there. Like I've listened to stories. I'm like, oh, my gosh, this is so boring. But what is that something that hooks somebody into actually hang on your lips when you tell a story?

05:48 Norman

Yeah, I don't want to oversimplify it. I think it's more than just this. But one of the tips that I have in my book is to get in trouble. Because somebody that is, and this related to what I was just talking about there. If you think about any, any movie, any book, any mystery series, any Netflix or Amazon or whatever series, the binge-able series that you've ever spent time with what makes you want to turn the page, what makes you want to go on to the next episode? And I think it's almost a flaw in us as humans that we're so interested in trouble, but it's trouble, right? It's like, what's going to happen? I'll know these things happened to the main character, are they going to make it through? Are they going to find out who the murderer is? Etc, etc. So, yeah, trouble is not to say that that's the only thing and trouble doesn't have to be like, space battles, like in Star Wars or something right? Or, or down in your part of the world, the Lord of the Rings, right? It doesn't have to be an epic quest to destroy the Ring of Power. But it can be something like somebody was mentioning the other day, a story about how they had spilled coffee on their shirts, and they were about to it'd be live in person, and they had about 20 minutes to go down to the shirt store and get a new shirt. Right. That's, that's trouble, too, right. And so that would be one recommendation. It's not the only thing we can also talk about just anything that happens in our lives. It doesn't need to just be the troublesome things. But, but that's, that's one potential tip there.

07:40 Joy

I like that because it is not it. I think about it. Every time I read a book, or I listen to something, it's like that it was like, oh, what happened now? It does draw you, right? This is just like humans, it just draws you in.

07:54 Norman

It does see. And even just right now, there was a car alarm that went on outside and stopped, luckily, but if it hadn't been that would have been a little bit of trouble. And now I start to recognize those things as not like, oh, no, this is gonna ruin everything. It's like, oh, this, this could be a good story, maybe there's a story here. It's true.

08:13 Joy

So your passion is to help purpose-driven entrepreneurs. Now I find this fascinating because that's exactly my thing that's literally in my mission statement that I want to help that we actually do help purpose-driven entrepreneurs. How did you come about having that as your avatar or as your ideal client?

08:31 Norman

Yeah, well, I think I feel that I'm a purpose-driven entrepreneur as well. And as I was talking about with, with storytelling, being about trouble, I mean, again, we don't need to make this stuff up. We don't need to make up car chases or something, we can just be honest here that all of us, you don't get through a human life without struggling, right. And, and so one of my other tips, which is related is to just kind of get real, right, and get real and authentic about some of the experiences you've had. And I've had some really challenging experiences in my life, and I would be willing to bet Joy that you probably have to, and probably everyone who's listening to that. And, and so when you have some of those I've gone through a lot of personal development and personal growth and so forth. And so it's given me I think, some compassion and interest in giving back and, and wanting to be supportive of other people who are wanting to make a positive difference in the world. And oftentimes the people that want to make a positive difference are people who have had some challenges that they themselves need to overcome.

09:43 Joy

I love that. And it is so true and sharing your story because it's quite amazing. Like, I've shared my story with quite a few people. And I mean, I don't have like a massive wild story, but just the people that I've shared my story with, and they're like, they relate. And it's interesting because the other day I was in a woman's networking group meeting and it was like literally like 50 other women, and they were just networking on zoom, having fun. And it was quite fascinating to hear, because and then the one lady raised her hand, she's like, can you guys hear the pattern? Everybody here has the same story as in the same concept, like the same struggle. And the challenge is, it's just, it's a different story, but it's yet the same. And I clicked, and I was like, oh, wow, it's actually so incredibly true and this is like, 50 women across the world, all in different countries. And yet, we share that same story, which is quite amazing, actually.

10:35 Norman

forms of communication, it's: 1000

And that's actually where decision-making takes place. We'd like to think that we're rational beings, but we're largely emotionally driven beings. And so yeah, that's where we really relate can relate to each other on a heart, heart to heart, human level.

11:29 Joy

Yeah, so true. So this podcast is about also inspiring entrepreneurs to become entrepreneurs, or when you are stuck in your business and moving forward, what is the type of advice that you can give somebody if they feel like they are stuck? What advice can you give somebody,

11:47 Norman

hen I and then last year came: 2020

14:30 Joy

There is this weird thing out there at the moment. And I think it's people just trying to I don't know, maybe put on a brave face, but I see so many parts of people in the night and it's like friends of mine and they're like, oh, life is great, but I actually know them and I know that their life is not great. And I'm thinking honest, she what you're feeling because everybody is feeling the same thing. So Norman, how do you get through your struggles when are you feeling like you're having a really bad day or a bad week or a bad month? How do you get through that?

14:57 Norman

Sure, sure. And I'll just set aside like well first say write down my story of the day, I mean, just in, in my life, that's what I do is I will connect with other people in one form or another that's what helps the most is to talk to hope you have someone in your life that you can reach out to, and just really just, and someone that can listen to you wherever you authentically are, and that you can do the same for them and not that you have to kind of shine it on and say like, well, hey, I'm feeling now just like, for me, I need to dump it all out, and, and go like, oh my god, this is how I'm feeling today, I just do a lot. And then if I can get it all out, and I feel like I'm heard, then maybe I can start to feel like, you know what, though?

You know, maybe there's something I can do now. So that and then aside from that, I would say listening to an inspiring podcast, like this is another helpful thing you can do. I go to some online support group meetings, just listening to just again, hearing groups of people whether if maybe you're if you're in a mastermind group or something else, but I guess the overall answer is just don't try to do it yourself connect with others.

16:22 Joy

Yeah, so true. And mastermind groups are a great way to just brainstorm and talk with people talk it out. So you say you brain dump in the mornings? Is that something that you do every time every morning? Or is that only something that you do when you struggle?

16:39 Norman

Well, these are good questions. I have a morning routine. And I'm I, admittedly, I am just adding this back end, but I'm starting to do some journaling again. But yeah, so what do I do I do some meditation. I do a little bit of exercise on the exercycle or go for a walk or something. And, and now I'm starting to do some I feel the creative juices flowing again, just a very, very recently it's felt kind of stuck for quite a while myself. But oh, just what adding one extra thing in there to your previous question. I've been watching some movies about, I was watching the doors movie, which I have some mixed feelings about. But then I watched another doors documentary, but and just in general, just like, whatever mixed feelings people might have about Jim Morrison, but just like, oh, wow, he was a creative person he's a poet, and it started to inspire the creativity within me as well. So yeah, doing some creative writing in the morning. And yeah, meditation and exercise and some creativity.

17:50 Joy

It's amazing how those things work together. It's just, like, you, you, you burn your negative energy by exercising and the meditation calms you down, and journaling, just brain dump everything. It's actually I love hearing these things. Because with my podcast, I've interviewed quite a lot of successful people. And it's amazing that the pattern is there with like, successful people that all meditate, they all do some form of journaling, whether it's like actual writing or talking to people, but it's amazing that the patterns are there. It's amazing what makes people successful, right?

18:21 Norman

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I don't want to overplay like, oh, yeah, I'm perfect at this. I do this every day, then the opposite day might be going right into the news and getting sucked into a rabbit hole about oh, my god, what's going on today? That's, that's an ideal morning.

18:39 Joy

Yeah. But it happens, right? I mean, I'm the same. I do journaling, too. And I'm not perfect at it. Like, there would be weeks where I don't touch it. And then other weeks where I do it every day religiously for like 20 days straight. So it is it's a balancing act, right? Yeah, I completely, I completely get that. So we talked about your morning routine, which thanks to you for that because that was actually one of the questions that I wanted to ask you. So as far as you coaching people because obviously, this is what you do, this is one of your superpowers, what is the framework that you would teach them to write a story just like the basic framework?

19:13 Norman

Yeah, I usually start within both my workshops and working one on one with people, there are many different types of stories you can tell. And so sometimes it can be a little bit confusing, or daunting about, well, where do I even start so for example, there's the client success story or there's even a kind of a day to day story, sort of like a behind the curtain of like, hey, here's, here's how I operate my business. The people find that interesting. But I usually like to start with the origin story, sort of the way the story, the why you do what you do, story and where I usually like to start, because you can easily say, well I love helping purpose-driven entrepreneurs achieve their goals. And that really lights me up. That's great. But those are kind of just words, and maybe they don't connect emotionally. But if you're able to say, yeah, I love helping purpose-driven entrepreneurs. And the reason why is when I was seven years old, and then then you go into a story, and it's actually something happens in people's brains, when they start listening to a story that, as one other author put it is the brain starts to relax, because it's a very familiar form of communication. And it's like, oh, good, I can, I can relate to this. And, and so I usually start with my clients, and having them put a list of their some turning point moments in their lives. And I would invite your listeners to do the same. So write a list of three to five moments in your life where something changed, like, maybe something got better, maybe it got worse, maybe it was a big moment, maybe it was a small moment, but it feels significant in your life. And you don't have to write the whole story out, you can just write a few words to remind you of what that story is. And for me, for example, some of the turning point moments in my list are the big speech, dad coming home from Spain, and, and I know exactly what those mean. And when I'm working with a client, they do it with me, if you were doing it on your own, you could do it in the mirror, or you could do it with a kind of a story, buddy. And do some tryouts. And when I'm always looking for is that story that kind of comes alive when you tell it. Because sometimes there are the stories that you think you need to tell. but they feel kind of burdensome. And then there are other maybe sometimes unexpected stories that light you up when you tell them. And so I would do tryouts. And once you identify a story, then you can start to apply some of the craft of storytelling, sort of the beginning, middle, and end, and then fine-tuning them.

22:13 Joy

Like that. I was once in a workshop many, many years ago, like a little one and a half hour workshop on training on learning how to tell your story, I can't remember who but there was like, two, three years ago.

And one of the things that I remember from this workshop is that when you tell your story, obviously origin story is important because people get a back story of who you are as a person, but also to bring in things like color and smell. And imagine this carpet look, is that is that a thing? Is that just adding in some, I guess, your story? Is that something that you would help people with as well?

22:48 Norman

Yeah, that would be in the fine-tuning stage. Basically, I try to keep it simple. So actually, in the heroes, Joseph Campbell's hero's journey, there are 12 steps there, right. So I tried to keep it a little simpler than that because that can get intimidating. So three is a magic number. So there are three steps in the process that and then there are some sub-steps or whatever. But nevertheless, there's a kind of uncovering your story. So that's kind of what we're talking about a finding that these moments that, that that kind of come alive, that could be the story goals, right. And then and then we add that the craft of story and sort of having a story structure in the book, that very simple story structure that you can apply. And then in the fine-tuning stage, that is one of my tips is to make a scene. And there's a podcast host named Kevin Allison, and I took a storytelling workshop with him. And he said that one of the mistakes isn't the right word. But one of the common things that people do when they're sort of starting, starting out as far as their storytelling goes, is that they spent too much time in narrative summary, and not enough time in scenes. And the narrative summary is where you're sort of at this 30,000 foot level like, if I said in the 90s, I worked for five years for the gore flex Corporation, I was a marketing copywriter, right. And so I'm at a very high level that's really not engaging people emotionally. But then I can switch to a scene and say, around the two-year mark of me working there was one night and I was in the office and it was dark, and I'm working alone in the office. When suddenly down the hall. I hear some creaking, creaking footsteps coming down the hall and then I hear the sound of a baby crying, whatever it is, but that's the scene, right? And we're in a scene where we're there with you, right? And maybe even as I said that maybe that wasn't the greatest scene in the world, but like, maybe you started to picture like being in the office in the dark, and, and hearing those sounds and so forth. And so when we appeal to that sensory language, we bring people that are the most effective territory for storytelling.

25:26 Joy

Yes. I really love that. Because as soon as you start talking you can't help yourself, you're imagining the darkness and the baby crying, it just, it just becomes natural, almost in your mind in imagining this. So Norman, what do you think is one of the things that contribute to your success?

25:58 Norman

One of the things that contribute to my success, I think persistence, is maybe one thing and I almost cringe to say that because some days, I don't feel like I'm persisting, but in the end, I might have a period of time where I get kind of glom and sort of lost and sort of, like, I don't know what I'm doing here. But then I kind of pick myself up, brush myself off, and start all over again. And, and I've had many times in my life like that, and I just have to give myself a pat on the back for that and anybody out there listening, right, if you're an entrepreneur if you have your own business, especially in this day and age, you doubtless will have days like that. Maybe now even more than usual. And yeah, just encourage you to kind of just put one foot in front of the other. I mean, I had a guest on my podcast, Cathy O'Dowd, she was the first woman to climb Mount Everest from the north and south side.

She's actually from South Africa. Now that I think about it. And I said, Cathy, how did you do it? How did you climb to the top of Mount Everest? And she said, well, I just put one foot in front of the other is one step at a time.

27:19 Joy

It's amazing how something so simple can make such a big impact on your life. Norman, can you talk a little bit about your coaching program? And what is it that you offer to people and how they can get in touch with you and basically join your world?

27:35 Norman

Oh, sure. Sure. Well, let's see I'm over at NormanJBell.com or if you wanted to go straight to the book, the book might be a good entry point is storypoweredspeaker.com that's storypoweredspeaker.com. And, and basically, the book sort of outlines or goes into more detail about the three-step process that I was talking about, the why of storytelling, some more details about these fine-tuning tips. And it also includes a number of example stories in therefrom, from me, and, and from many of the guests that I had on the podcast. And actually, I'm thinking of one about this make a scene. Tip, there's a guest that I had on the show, his name's Chris Balu, he was the lead singer of the rock band, the presidents of the United States of America. And he has a really funny story about how he almost had a brush, almost killed Madonna's dog. But, but anyway, you can really, let's say, when you read that story, you really got a picture of what that was like? Anyway, so, in addition to the book, I also have workshops and coaching programs that essentially cover this terrain, but I, especially with the, coaching clients that I work with, can work with them on a variety of different things that will likely include storytelling, but also presentation coaching. So someone could be getting ready for a TED talk, or an investor pitch, or a variety of other things. Also looking at applying storytelling within companies to help teams communicate better. So there are many different things you can do. Yeah, I encourage you to check out the website and get in touch if you want to have a free, free meeting to discuss your needs.

29:42 Joy

Yeah. And we'll definitely drop the links below. So you guys can easily just click on it and go through to Norman's book. I'm definitely buying your book. I think it's a great, great way to just get into storytelling. Norman, is there anything else that you can add to the audience from your site that I might have missed in my questions?

30:01 Norman

I think that keep it simple right now just like, keep listening to Joy's podcasts, it sounds like she's serving up inspiration on a regular basis and, and has a great community here. And just be gentle with yourself, take care of yourself right now. And get a good night's sleep to eat balanced diet kind of some of the basics right now, because I think that we're in a kind of a historically challenging time and, and not to try to push yourself beyond your limits right now is not the time to be like, I'm going to the moon baby it's like, whoa, okay, I got to take care of myself and just know that everybody out there is doing it, too.

31:00 Joy

Yeah, it's very true. Actually, just yesterday, I posted a salad that I was making on Instagram. And just saying to people, one of the first success hacks is really just to look after yourself and eat healthy, because feed your body, and your mind with healthy things healthy things come out of you. So it's true.

31:17 Norman

I'll give you one sorry, one trick and in storytelling, the arena is in addition to your origin story, and developing some of that stuff, but I encourage you to just open up a Google doc or a Word doc, or even a piece of paper and just write story bank at the top of it, and start getting into the practice of collecting stories. And so again, as I said before, in that other exercise, just write down a few phrases, when something story-worthy comes up. But if we don't do that, then they kind of get lost in our memory banks. And story-worthy things happening to us all the time and so I just encourage you to start collecting your stories.

32:01 Joy

Now that's, that is a great tip. And it's something that I do myself as well, and an accurate story inventory, but exactly the same concept. And another tip that I can add to Norman's one for the audience is that if you really feel like I had enough stories to tell my life is boring. Go through photo albums. Like that's what I've done. I go through photo albums, my school years, and my childhood years, and it's amazing how things trigger you when you just see photos of your life.

32:27 Norman

Yeah, that's right. That's right. And you don't need to have climbed Mount Everest to tell great stories people are interested in big stories, but really little stories, too like just everyday stories.

32:39 Joy

Yes, exactly. Norman, this has been fantastic. I really appreciate your time. Thank you very much for sharing all your golden nuggets with the audience. And definitely, guys go and check out Norman's links like I said, I'm definitely getting my hands on his book. So yeah, I recommend you guys do the same. Thank you so much, Norman. Appreciate your time.

32:57 Norman

Thank you so much Joy. It's been a pleasure to be here. I would say a joy to be here. But I bet people say that all the time.