Change How You think To Become Successful - Interview with Steven Hoffman

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Joy Nicholson 0:00

Good day unleashes. Today I have a very special guest on my podcast. His name is Steve Hoffman. He lives in the San Francisco area. And Steve is the captain and the CEO of Founders Space. And I think it ties in perfectly with the season what we're doing. And Founder Space was ranked the number one incubator for overseas startups by Forbes and entrepreneur magazines. Hoffman is also a venture investor, and serial entrepreneur and an author of several award winning books. How cool is that? These includes Make an Elephant Fly, start giving a startup and Surviving the Startup my bed, and also the fire forces. Hi, Steve, how you doing?

Steven Hoffman 0:42

It's fantastic to be here. Joy.

Joy Nicholson 0:44

Thank you so much for your time on this podcast. I'm very excited. And I'm always so excited to talk to authors because I think writing a book, nevermind in your situation, several books. But writing a book is so much you must have so much knowledge to pour into a book. And it takes a lot of time to write a book, right. And so I really appreciate your time and sharing your knowledge with us on this podcast. I thank you for that. Can you tell people a little bit about you? Who is Steve on a normal day?

Steven Hoffman 1:10

Shoot? Sure. Like I'm a passionate guy. So I'm passionate about doing what I do, which is really helping startups succeed. And I myself have been an entrepreneur. So I founded two bootstrap startups, and three venture funded startups in Silicon Valley. So I've done a lot. I've been doing startups. And then I launched founder space, which is really a startup accelerator, where we bring in entrepreneurs in early stage companies, and help them figure out their business plan, figure out their customers, launch their products and raise capital. And that's what I do on a daily basis. I'm also an avid traveler. So like Founders Sace now we have 50 partners in 22 countries. So, you know, pre pandemic, I was traveling 70% of the time. Lately, I've been doing a lot of stuff online. But now that I've been vaccinated, I'm traveling again. So I am really excited about the coming year.

Joy Nicholson 2:04

That is really, really cool. Can you tell us a little bit about how How did Founders Space come about? What What made you what was your decision said, I'm actually starting this company. Well,

Steven Hoffman 2:15

After my third venture funded startup, I was taking a break, I needed a break. So I was I was taking a break. And all my friends started to come to me. And my nickname in Silicon Valley is Captain Hoff. So they were like, Captain Captain helped me with my business plan. How do I get in front of investors? How did you raise all that money? So they kept asking me all these questions, I answered their questions. And then I decided, you know, a lot of entrepreneurs have these questions. And this was a while back over a decade ago. So I put up a blog called Founders Space. And I started posting all the stuff that I would recommend entrepreneurs do and the things they shouldn't do all the pitfalls, and more and more entrepreneurs start commenting. And eventually, they're like, start your own accelerators. So we launched our accelerator, and then all these people from overseas started coming. And we started to branch out, we actually started to send our instructors who are all entrepreneurs, you know, to South Korea, Taiwan, Europe, China, all over the world, to work with entrepreneurs locally. And then we started to set up some foreign incubators with our partners overseas, and it just kept growing is amazing.

Joy Nicholson 3:19

And, you know, I, I have so much respect for you in that regard. You're helping startup businesses I have, I have this dream to know, it's gonna sound super chic and cliche, but this is like my thing. And I want to help as many businesses as I possibly can to pop up in the world, because I truly believe that that is the one way to break poverty. Because if people, you know, can start a business and yes, it's not easy. And yes, probably the first few years in your business, you will be in poverty. But thereafter, you can help to create jobs. And you know, it's just a beautiful side,

Steven Hoffman 3:52

I agree, there is no powerful, more powerful force than entrepreneurialism for boosting the economy. Because you look, if you are a nonprofit, it's great. There are certain problems that only nonprofits can address. But honestly, it's hard to scale those, like it's hard to grow those because you're always at the mercy of getting more philanthropist, you always have to get more money to do more. If you create a business, and it's a good business and you're delivering to the customers, it grows on its own. And it's a great thing, not just for you, but for your children too. Because, you know, if you have a business, you have some security, like you had a job you can you can get laid off anytime but your own business, there's a higher degree of control, and there's so there's no ceiling. There's you can there's no the limit is what you make of it.

Joy Nicholson 4:42

And have you noticed that because I know there's a bit of quite a lot of stats, especially in America that just there's a lot more businesses, yes, a lot of businesses failed with the pandemic, you know, within the initial first lockdown two years ago, but also a lot of businesses have started up. Have that helped your business in A lot of ways to help these entrepreneurs

Steven Hoffman 5:02

it has. So it's, you know, right now, there has never been a better time to get funded. There's more capital out there from venture capitalists and Angel investors than any time in history in our entire history. And that's not just in the United States that's around the world, like, so. And that's been great for my business, the fact that more people are trying, even though a certain percentage will always fail. The more people are trying, the more successes we see. And even the ones who fail, a lot of times end up joining those companies that are taking off and benefit from the growth of those companies, because they have a lot of experience they've been, they've been in the trenches, they know what it's like to start a company. So entrepreneurs aren't locked into anything, they're always moving around recombining with other entrepreneurs launching new things, it has been a phenomenal time for us. Because that is what we do that you know that this were like a growth engine, and and really a training facility. Because we train a lot of people at just the idea stage, like what do they need to know to get going.

Joy Nicholson 6:05

And that is so incredibly important that you guys do that, because I remember when I started up a battle, probably almost close to three and a half years now. Because I've had many failures before actually having my business that I have now three and a half years ago. And but failure is not just obviously you know, what you do something you hated, or it just is not for you. But finder aside, when I started three and a half years ago, it is a lot of research out there, you can get down in this black hole of information, and it contradicts each other. And then you reading this is like, oh, I should do this. And actually this business is No, you shouldn't do this, you should do this. So and I think that's a lack of things that's actually happening in the world is because people need a foundation to go to or like your program to go to to actually go and learn about how you actually start up a business because it's easier to go to somebody like yourself being a coach, and then people you know, you teach people how to do that. What is been your biggest challenge with with your business in that regard.

Steven Hoffman 7:03

So a biggest challenge is helping entrepreneurs succeed. So honestly, it's hard. That's why I wrote my book Surviving a Startup because the majority of startups don't survive, like, even even those startups, they get funded by venture capital firms, a lot of them disappear. So you, they they seem great one day, and the next day, they're aren't working. So in my business, you know, a lot of the hardest thing is changing the entrepreneurs perspective, because I will tell you, the number one mistake entrepreneurs make is that they don't let go of their idea. Like they have an idea, they latch on to it. And they're like, they associate the idea with their identity. So if the idea fails with their initial idea fails, then they think they fail, when that couldn't be further from the truth. So like, what I tried to do early on is say, look, the idea is just an experiment. Like if you're a scientist, and you ran an experiment, and the experiment failed, would you think of yourself as a failure? Or like, No, it was an experiment. I'm a scientist, that's what I do. Say, Well, you are business scientists now. Like I want every entrepreneur to put on their, their goggles, and their, their white, you know, their white cloak and go out there into the world and start experimenting, because in try lots of ideas like entrepreneurs, I think entrepreneurs try far too far too few ideas. And what you want to do is, you know, you're going out into this world, and you're saying, if I did this, if I made this change with technology, or business model, or design, innovation, some form of change, what would be the results, and a lot of times you can't predict the results. I'll give you a great example. I know the founders of YouTube, when they started, YouTube was a video dating site. Most people don't know.

Joy Nicholson 8:52

They actually look into the history. And I was like, what,

Steven Hoffman 8:55

what, and you know, video dating doesn't work. It sounds great. Like we and they weren't the beginning of broadband. It sounds like Oh, of course, everybody wants to see who they're going to date before they go on a date. But nobody wanted to do that. It's so they were failing, in their brilliant idea came simply because they were out there being an entrepreneur, like they were out there doing something. And then they decided, you know, they want to share a video amongst their friends. And they're like, how do we share this video? Like, it's hard, like videos are big files, and we can't share it, you know, by email or anything. So they uploaded it to their site and share the link. That simple insight. Oh my god, it's so easy to share a video. Why don't we enable this for other people that they didn't say we're gonna build the largest, you know, broadcast and online entertainment network the world has ever seen. They didn't start there. They started somewhere totally different. And then, you know, by experimenting, and this is what I'm talking about. They discovered what's real. So I'm telling entrepreneurs, you might not even think these little things you're doing in your companies are going to be the next big thing, but you gotta be open to that.

Joy Nicholson: 10:02

Yeah. It's so incredible. If you look at startup businesses, I mean, like just, people don't realize all around us, the startup businesses, you know, like, literally the MacBook, and phones and light bulbs. And it's all entrepreneurs that have started, I once had this brilliant idea that wasn't just created in a flash moment it was maybe the idea was then a flash moment, but the work behind it takes so much time, do you feel like with you, and what you guys are doing, because I think it's just so amazing what you do. Like, let me just make sure that you get my feel on this, because I think it's incredible. But do you also feel like when people come to you, and they want to start up that they have a lot of doubt, and confidence and belief issues within themselves, and then ideas, or they're very driven people to just get going on this startup of theirs.

Steven Hoffman: 10:50

There are all types of entrepreneurs. So they're entrepreneurs who are very secure in what they're doing very focused, determined to succeed. And they don't let anything stop them. There are entrepreneurs who can wind up being very successful, who don't have those traits, who are insecure, who are worried, you know, financially, it's taking a big risk. Emotionally, it's, it's, it's a roller coaster ride. So, you know, part of our job and part of the human job, like you said, there's all this information on the internet, like on our website, founder space, we have tons of videos, and it's really valuable. But at the end of the day, a lot of people need that human touch, why they want to be with somebody really connecting with them, when they want to be with other entrepreneurs, we're going through the same thing, because it can be a challenge. Now I know, in my personal life, like there, I had so many challenges starting out, you know, I wasn't a business major. Like I was an Electrical Computer Engineer, in undergrad and then grad school, I did a crazy thing. I went to film and television school. So you know, the first time I launched my first company, you know, I felt very insecure, I didn't have an MBA, I didn't even have a you know, bachelor's degree in business. I never run a business. I didn't, you know, know, accounting. I didn't know any of this stuff. Yet. My first company was very successful. But it was a challenge. You know, I would tell you, every day of that first company, I doubt it. I doubt it. It's like, am I wasting my time? Is this stupid? Should I just be getting a good job? What am I doing? Like, this is crazy, but I just kept going. And I muddled my way through it. And then when I, you know, came out with a product that was successful, I couldn't even believe it myself. I was like, Oh, my God, the people actually will buy this. Yeah.

Joy Nicholson: 12:43

So okay, I love this conversation, Steven, it is like, it's so refreshing to speak to people that are in the same niche than me, because it's not a lot of people that want to help sort of businesses because it's, it's hard work, right? It's like teaching kindergarten in comparison to university because this is brand spanking new. Now, I can imagine that there's , obviously we talked about, like the challenges that's involved in that as well. But what do you find the most rewarding out of what you do?

Steven Hoffman: 13:10

I find, for me, personally, I my brain loves puzzles. So I love it, when I can merge my mind with the entrepreneurs. And we can start to think of the possibilities that look, where could this business go? What could you do? What, you know, are there other ways of looking at this business and adding value to these customers that nobody has tried yet? And then we start spinning on that. And like, I just got off the call with an entrepreneur won't tell you his idea. But we were just like, oh, well, what if you could do this? What if Oh, and there would be this opportunity and that opportunity. And then, you know, I'm going to right after our talk, we're going to talk to another entrepreneur who's really struggling, like really struggling, this guy is amazing, super talented, super driven, super personable and smart. You know what, he he can't pay his rent, he hasn't paid his rent in three weeks. So he begged his landlord not to kick them out. And he needs money. He needs to get funded like yesterday. And so he's gonna be out at the end of the month. And he doesn't even have money for utilities for food. He spent it all on this startup. And I'm in there trying to help him like I'm like, I'm introducing him to investors. I am going over his model. I'm trying to show him what in his model that investors are resistant to like, literally, you know why? I want to show him Why aren't investors putting money into this, so that he can understand what he needs to do to change that. And then I also told him, Look, get a job, get a part time job, whatever it is. You've got to survive, because you're not going to honestly you're not going to solve these problems overnight. Like you. You might pray that investor will come in tomorrow. But these you know, these are the issues you still have to solve and that's going to take Some time.

Joy Nicholson: 15:01

Yeah, that was gonna be when you see that I was like, Who needs a job? Because like,

Steven Hoffman: 15:06

That was my advice to him just Yeah. Yeah. Cuz

Joy Nicholson: 15:09

All entrepreneurs thought like, I mean, I was the same I was employed, I had a one year old and I started my side hustle that obviously turned into this now. But it's it's you have to have some income because it's so much more stress on you. And you can't think clearly if you don't have a side hustle and income coming in.

Steven Hoffman: 15:25

Yes. And I feel his stress. Yes.

Joy Nicholson: 15:29

Can you imagine? Can you tell us a little bit about your books Steven.

Steven Hoffman: 15:35

So my book surviving a startup is published by HarperCollins. And I wrote it because I've had just decades of experience doing this, you know, out there with entrepreneurs, my own companies, and now hundreds of other entrepreneurs that I work with. And I really wanted entrepreneurs, to be able to better navigate their way to success, like avoid those pitfalls. And I can tell you, I fell into most of those pitfalls myself, I can, you know, what I do in there, it's like, there's a lot on closing deals, because entrepreneurs like I was terrible at that, like, you know, now I'm pretty good at it. I'm pretty good at like going out closing. But when I started I was clueless, I'd never sold anything in my life. I didn't know how you did that. And then I started to figure out systematically, like, if you're going to close venture capital, what do you need to do? Like, what, you know, what are the keys, and I learned, like, I'll just tell you a couple of things I learned like, these are in the book. So number one, it took me over a year to raise my first venture capital over a year. And the first thing I learned was I had these angel investors that were just hanging on, they were like, they wanted to see what would happen to us, but they wouldn't commit, and they were taking up tons of my time, like going back to them. My first thing was, if somebody can't commit, after three or four meetings with them, if they can't commit, kick them off the fence, like, get them, just tell them, they're not in the deal. Now, it's hard to do. And I couldn't do it when I first started because they, I needed love. I needed somebody who liked my company. You know, like, they were showing me love, they were showing that they believed in my company, but they weren't believing enough to take action. So they were just sucking up my time and giving me false hope that they would invest in the future, I will tell you serious investors, after three or four meetings, they will put down their money. And if they don't, they're probably never going to put down their money. So you are losing almost nothing by saying, Look, if you can't, if you can't close now, I can't keep engaging with you. That's number one. Number two, in order to sell somebody, and I learned this the really hard way. Like I had this big venture firm that's committed to giving me the money. And I spent $60,000 on legal contracts. And you know what happened? They we did the whole contract, everything crossed every T dotted every I. And I said give me my money, my $5 million dollars. You know what they did? They said, Ah, we think we want to wait a little longer. What do you mean, we want to wait until you launch your product? Your product hasn't launched yet? I was like, but you said you would give me the money when we sign this. And then what could I do? So I waited? Right. I waited for them. And two months later, my product launched it was a big success. It was with Viacom and MTV and this big thing that we bootstrapped, and I went back to them. I said, Okay, give me the money now. And they said, Okay, we'll give you the money. But half the valuation we promised, I was like, why my product was successful, half the value, because they knew I was desperate for money. They knew it. So you know what I did, I finally woke up and I walked away from them. I said, Screw you, like, I don't want you in my company. I don't want you on my board. I don't want to deal with you walked away. And I learned some valuable lessons. Number one, I should have walked away two months ago, like two months previously, when they told me that they were going to wait after they promised to invest. That was the red flag, it was right there. And then I should have had other investors lined up. Like I just banked all on them. So I was in a really bad position for the next six weeks Christmases coming all the investors ago, pure torture, you know, you, I will tell you, you can close a deal, when you get the investors more afraid of losing the deal than they are of losing their money. Like if they're more afraid of losing the deal. That's when they commit, if they think they can wait, don't always wait because it D risks the deal. They can sit back and see and they can maybe get a better deal from you, they can see what happens. They're not gonna invest. So these are just a few of the kind of nugget, my personal experiences that I drew upon to write the book.

Joy Nicholson: 19:40

And it says said that they would do that because as also, you know, as a startup entrepreneur, I can imagine that you can be also quite desperate for funding and they know this and they'll probably pay on that as well. And if you don't have anybody lined up, then you know they're going to play on that that as well. So they do that and

Steven Hoffman: 19:56

We call them vulture capitalists and we don't call them that for no reason they will come in, you know, but there are all types, there are really great investors out there who really care about the entrepreneurs and really help them and then there are those who would do anything. Yeah, you want to avoid those?

Joy Nicholson: 20:14

Yeah, no, definitely. So Steve, this podcast is about going behind the scenes to understand what makes successful people successful. And this season specifically is about the experts. So what do you think in your expert opinion? What is the best thing that entrepreneurs can do to start up their business aside, going from absolutely nothing? So maybe they have an idea to actually generating the first dollar? What would advice what blueprint advice would you have for them?

Steven Hoffman: 20:44

So when you as an entrepreneur starting out, First, figure out what type of business you want to build, like, do I want a lifestyle business, and that's usually you know, can be a small business, you can be a solo entrepreneur, you can be with a couple of key partners, maybe a few employees, but it's a business to support your lifestyle. If it's that don't go out to raise venture capital, like don't waste your time, don't get any investors, like you need to pick up in business, you can bootstrap, because nobody wants to invest in that, that's maybe your parents might, or your grandparents, you know, but it's really a donation, it's not an investment. So the type of business that investors like our businesses that we call scale, meaning they grow exponentially, these are the unicorns out there that you see that growing so fast. Those are hard. Like, it's hard to come up with those ideas, it's hard to execute on those ideas. That's why they're worth so much. If they were easy, everybody be a billionaire. But they're really, really hard. It's much easier to do a small business that you know, you know, consulting business, you know, running a store, restaurant, whatever it is. But if you're going to do a truly scalable business, you need a couple things first, number one, don't spend any time building your product. Don't spend any time talking to venture capitals, or investors at the beginning, I'm talking at the very, very beginning, even and this is where people are, you know, get confused. Don't spend much time on your idea. Because your idea is probably wrong. Remember, I told you YouTube, like they start off as a data, you know, it's probably wrong. You don't know what you don't want to spend forever building a product, thinking about it doing all this stuff, and it's wrong. So really good entrepreneurs do two things at the beginning, the first thing they do is they they pick a direction, I want to go this direction, this really interesting, I'm interested in the idea of, you know, the remaking making a sustainable fishing industry, I want to help make the fishing industry more sustainable. Or I want to go into the restaurant business with technology and change how people run their restaurants. So it but within each of those, there can be a lot of different businesses, a lot of different ideas. And that's better than narrowing it down. Because when you narrow down, you get attached. Like I said, you don't want to try other things, but going into openly, then you go out and find other people in the real world who share that passion, who want to do that thing, those will be your partners. But those can't be ordinary people can't be your cousin Joey, because Joey, you know, you know, Joy, can't be your old roommate, because they're just there, you know, as your roommate, it has to be excellent people. Because if you don't have surround yourself with excellent people, you're not going to build one of these great startups, what you do, even if you have the best idea in the world, you'll start with it, you'll fumble the ball in somebody else with a better team will pick it up and begin to execute and they will score. So you need to best spend 80% of your time on the team. Once you nail the team, once you get this amazing group of people around you that you're like amazed, they would even work with you. Like they could be at Microsoft or Google or somewhere else. They could be, you know, doing incredible stuff, but they chose to work with you. Once you have that team, you go together into your industry where the customers are into the restaurants on to talk to people run, you know, fishing boats, or whatever you know you're doing and start to run different ideas by them. Look, where are their pain points? What are they? What are they having trouble with? What what are their priorities? What are the top three things they want to get done? And could you use new technology or new business model innovations, new design innovations to actually help them achieve these goals? And that's where the magic starts. It doesn't just come out of your head, you know, it comes out of that interaction with the real world. And if you do these things, right, you're off to a good start.

Joy Nicholson: 24:25

That's amazing advice. I really love that. Thank you, Steve for sharing that. That's really, really cool. So if you come across so this is a question that I always ask on my podcast. So for somebody that is sitting on the fence, or they're starting a business that is or they have a business and they're stuck, what advice would you have for them?

Steven Hoffman: 24:45

So if you are stuck, and I know a lot of people who are stuck, it's easy to get stuck. You can get stuck at the beginning because nothing's working. You can get stuck in the middle because like your revenue starts to plateau or dip. You just can't get reached that next goal. You need to rethink your business you need, I'll tell you, so there are a couple things you need to do first, if you feel like you're Sisyphus, and that's the Greek myth of the guy rolling the boulder up the hill, only to have it roll down again. And then you push it up, if that's your business, admit to yourself, something's wrong. I feel like Sisyphus right now, that means you need a radical change, when when entrepreneurs come to me and say, Captain off Captain half, you know, I should I quit my business. You know what I tell them? Absolutely. Quit quit today, do it. You know why? Because nobody wants to quit their business. If they're asking me, it means they already know their business isn't working, they just want permission to stop doing what they're doing. So the first thing you need to do is if it's not working, you need to you need to go to the core, is the core value, you're offering your customer really compelling? Like, is it something that when they see it, they're not like, Oh, that's pretty nice. Because you know, when something's pretty nice, like, think of you download an app on your phone, you're like, oh, that apps pretty nice. And then you forget about it. And then a month later, boom, it's deleted. You deleted that app? No, you go, all the answers are here, the answers are in your customer. So who do you want as your customer? Are they your existing customers? Or do you want to go after your new customers? Go and show them? Start to engage them? What do you what do you need? What aren't you getting from competitors? Start to ask them questions. And when you come up with an idea, if you present it to them, and they go, Oh, that's nice, go, you know, come back when it's ready. Forget it. Like they'll never, never buy your product. But if they go, Oh, my god, that's amazing. I need it right now. How can I get it? What can can we start working together? Now? Can you get that to me? When can I get it? If they give you that response, you have something and if there are enough other customers out there like that a big enough market, then you're in good shape. To get going. This is what you do when you're stuck. The answer lies in interacting with your customer.

Joy Nicholson: 26:58

I love that. As a marketer, because I've got a marketing agency, I also teach small businesses how to market themselves. So this is that's my superpower. My podcast is just my fun thing that I do that I've got a passion speaking to other people. But one of the things that I teaches, one of the very first things I teach is how to understand and know your customer, your avatar, and really hone in on that. And it's sometimes very undervalued people don't they use the basic demographics, you know, like where they live the age or gender, and then that kind of fades away, but they don't really hone in on the avatar, is that something that you guys do do really hone in on your avatar and who you're serving.

Steven Hoffman: 27:39

that's absolutely vital. We think it's really important to not just like, fill in the generic stuff about who your customer is, but to actually know them as people, like, go into the real world. talk to these people, like, engage with session, have a conversation, find out, you know, I always like, you know, you know, your customer, when you know, their top five priorities, like what what are they? What do they really care about? And if you aren't in that top five, you have no business with them. We're all too busy. Like if if it's priority number six, and you come to me, and I'm like, oh, yeah, that would that would be that's, that's, I do need to do that eventually, eventually, I'm calling you back eventually, which could be never, you know, unless that just happens to cover it up into my top five. At some point, I'm never calling you back. So building that avatar, knowing them inside and out really knowing them. Like, you know, a lot of the best entrepreneurs out there. They're there. They're the customer, like they build a product, because they want it because it's not in the marketplace. And then they find out oh, well, I built this for my you know, a lot of other people want this, I could commercialize it, I can make it a thing. So we see a lot of great startups that started there, like Slack, you know, the communications company, they were actually they began making a game. They were a game company, like a game company. Like they put this game out there. And it was a really cool idea for a game but it failed. Like nobody wanted to play it. Nobody was interested. You know what happened next. They the the CEO was struggling is like, wow, I raised all this money to make a game and nobody cares about my game. He looked internally to the company. And he found out Oh, we built this communication software that we're using, my engineers are using to communicate with each other, it's hacked together, but they love it. I think other companies could use this. So it was something they built for themselves that they loved, and they took it out. So either you're the customer and you really understand the value of it, or you have to go into the real world. And and figure in like you said, does create an avatar, know that customer get as much experiencial data as well as actual, you know, demographic data and other data buying habits and things like that, but also experiential data as possible.

Joy Nicholson: 29:54

I love geeking out on these things, Dave. I'm actually thinking that I need to create Glenn next season of my podcast needs to be about founders and startups and, you know,

Steven Hoffman: 30:02

I'll be back

Joy Nicholson: 30:04

it just because it's just, it's just so fun. Because looking at histories, I mean, even like, like when Netflix started and you know, like, like big companies out there, how they started and the initial things behind, it's just so fascinating, right? And then people just gone, they just gave up because something files so sad to see that instead of just reinventing the wheel of what you have and just keep going with it. And

Steven Hoffman: 30:27

the thing is, you're never a failure, if you never give up. That's it. Like you can quit as many projects as you want, you know, experiments as you want. But there's always new opportunities, because technology is always changing. Markets are changing trends, new trends are happening, there is always a new opportunity. You never run out of chance. It's not like you have three chances and your done.

Joy Nicholson: 30:49

Yeah, exactly. I mean, I look like one of the first things I ever did in my life when I was like 35 years old, as I might be the jewelry with my cousin, you know, and then I had a jewelry thing going on till I was in my 20s. Like it was just, I just reinvented the wheel and even the instance then I had multiple little things popping up that failed. And I was like, well, there's, there's always a way around it. And it's just interesting, because I'm thinking of like, how I was thinking when I had all these failures, and it's other people think the same way. But you grow, right? So you obviously notice you grow as as you start, as you know, and you know, failure is actually you need to fail to succeed, because that's part of the whole journey. Do you guys teach confidence and self worth and belief and things like that within your program, you know, to help people to overcome these limiting beliefs that they have?

Steven Hoffman: 31:40

So I do teach it online? I haven't, you know, in the programs itself for a little more, you know, we should do that, honestly, we should do it within our physical organs. But I've been doing it online, because I believe like, in my own life, it's been really transformational. Like, I believe that, you know, they say are entrepreneurs born, or are they made, right? And what I believe is, it's both so there's some people who are never cut out to be entrepreneurs, I'm sorry, you would be a better as a researcher, a professor, you know, a librarian, I don't know, but you, you know, you, you are not naturally suited, you know, entrepreneurs, you have to take a high degree of risk, you have to be able to deal with uncertainty, you have to handle stress, well, you know, there are certain things that you need, you need to be able to do. Now, some of those you can overcome. So, and I believe, whenever you do that, at the same token that some people can't be entrepreneurs, but everybody, you know, who's above a certain threshold, and it really meshes with what they like to do, you can become way better way better. So can entrepreneurs be made, perhaps you can be made into a much better entrepreneur, and you all but you have to focus on self improvement on on understanding where you're weak. And, and where you've made mistakes in the past, recognizing them and then going in and addressing them. Like, how can I you know, first of all, like when I began, you might not believe me at this point, because I'm pretty proficient at speaking. But I was horrible public speaker, like, horrible. Like, it was. It was a no might my first startup aren't my employees just laughed at me when I went up on stage because I was so nervous. I was shaking, and I couldn't get the words out. Right. And, but you know what I did, I just kept going up there and making a fool of myself over and over and over. And it didn't happen overnight. But gradually, I started to get the knack of it. Oh, I don't have to be so nervous, you know, you do something enough times. And it becomes like, a it's not a big deal. You do it the first time and you're like, I was a shy person. I was freaking out of your comfort zone. Yeah, totally, you know, out of but so that's one thing sales. You know, I mentioned to you, I really wasn't a salesperson. When I began, I had to figure the whole thing out, Trent, all the beauty of today is this. It's like no other time in history. All this information is out there on the internet, all the people like you like or you could just reach out to people now like experts around the world. And for very little money. And sometimes for free. You can either tune into their podcast or engage them personally and get coaching all of this is so much more accessible than it's ever been. So the the ability to actually and I believe people can reprogram their minds because you know, literally, I was a very shy nervous person. Like that is how I was born. But now I'm a very confident not nervous at all can handle almost any situation and do not get stressed out. Totally different from my anxious former self. So, so am I a different person today? Yeah, I'm like completely different person. Do I remember who I used to be? Yes, but that's not me now. It's like it's Another person, like I don't feel that way anymore. It's really interesting.

Joy Nicholson: 35:04

It's so funny to say that because one of my, my goals eventually is to speak on stages, not just yet, like, I'm happy with my podcast at the moment. And also in New Zealand, it's not a lot of opportunity for things like that. But so I will have to travel, you know, to be able to do this.

Steven Hoffman: 35:20

I spoke on I spoke on a stage in China to 10,000 entrepreneurs.

Joy Nicholson: 35:25

That's crazy that this huge,

Steven Hoffman: 35:29

Huge like, but I'm just saying that that'll get you over your stage fright.

Joy Nicholson: 35:36

I'm not attacked stage fright is not because I've done some trainings in the past where I do that, but I'm not. Stage fright is one thing. Yes. And I'm sure I will have it. I do that but even with my podcast because I'm I'm close it while I'm I'm actually on 80 episodes that I've well, not at the episode, but at interviews that I've done, because I've done obviously, so like episodes as well. And I remember the very first time when I interviewed a high profile person that made more than 5 million here, I was freaking out. I was literally my hands were shaking under the table. And I even say to him, I said, I'm literally shaking to interview you like, so nervous. And he laughed because he thought it was so funny. And I was not I was like, but it's not. And this morning, I had a very privileged interview somebody like very, very, very high profile. And I was completely relaxed, like I you know, and this is just like I am. And it's perfectly comfortable. Yeah, exactly. And it's how you grow rather than even looking back a year back. And it's just is that entrepreneurial journey. And this is also why I have this podcast, because I want to help entrepreneurs that feels like they just not going to get to that point of you know, I can be there, I can actually do that. Because it's unlikely that you tell these stories, because people need to realize that you can rewire your brain to be somebody that's bigger, better. And I guess Yeah,

Steven Hoffman: 36:59

our brains, even our personalities are very malleable. Like they're they're you by exposing yourself to certain things, by changing how you think and perceive the world. You can do amazing things like stress to like I used to get stressed out and but now, I've done so many things. And you know, I always remind myself when I start to get stressed out, you know, in your life, like you had things a year ago, that or you know, if that you were stressed out about? And can you even remember them today? Like most of them, you can't even remember 99% like the things you're worried about, you don't even remember, like so and why am I worrying about it now, because I won't remember this a year from now must not be that important.

Joy Nicholson: 37:43

All over the researcher that is exactly that is so true. So what kind of habits do you have on a daily basis? What is your success habits that you do daily?

Steven Hoffman: 37:53

So I believe in incremental improvement, so we don't change our you know, anybody wants a quick fix to like, who we are, what do we do doesn't happen. But what you want are small achievements. So, you know, people become these marathon runners, they don't run the marathon, the first day, your training, they send a small goal, they're like, I'm going to run half a mile, like I'm going to, and I know a lot of people like this who started running marathons late in life, you know, they weren't like, young, they're like, I'll start with half a mile. But they have this big goal. When they achieve that. They allowed themselves to feel really good. They're like, Yeah, I can do that with no problem. Now, half mile, let's push for a mile, let's push for five miles, 10 miles, you know, and before running a marathon, but it's the same of all your habits, I think you are your habits you are what you do over and over. So in my day, priorities, like I always know what my top priorities are. And I tried to laser focus on those. Number two, I try to make sure that those top priorities are aligned with big outcomes, right, like the outcomes that will really be transformative in my life, not outcomes that will be an incremental, you know, little improvement on so it but I don't expect to get there to those outcomes instantly. It's going to be a process. I also am pretty disciplined about like, when I go to bed, I don't stay up all night, I make sure to get plenty of sleep. You know, I think that's really important to have a clear mind. I focus every day I exercise every day. And you know, my one of my tricks for exercising, getting myself to exercise, you know, I'm not a natural, like I just love to exercise guy. But what I do is I also love information, ideas, books. So I listen to audio books and podcasts as I go out running or walking. And I'll tell you, like, it's amazing. Like I don't want to stop especially if it's a good one, you know, good podcasts or good book, you want to keep going. So kind of combining in I'm also learning so I'm learning as I exercise and I'm like doing both Once and otherwise, they wouldn't have time to, you know, listen to an absorb as many thing that has been fantastic. And when I eat, I try to keep healthy, healthy by one simple diet rule. So first of all, it's called the one plate diet. So whatever you you want to eat at a certain meal should fit on one plate, if you have to go back and refill that plate, you're going overboard, like that's, that's a no, no, a number two, just make sure healthy food is on that plate and don't buy junk food and put it in your house because you will eat it like I have no self control. Like if there's a bag of chips there, that bag will be gone. Like, if I the next time I go shopping, if there's ice cream in the fridge, I will eat that ice cream, it won't just sit there, so it won't last long. So buy the food that you want to eat in your house and do the one plate rule and don't eat between meals, boom, boom, you except for maybe fruits or vegetables, something like that if you need to pick up. But that that is all you need to do. And then so all of those combined, and then spend time with family and friends. Like I always make extra time like I don't try to work. Like, you know, they say you have to work all the time. But that's wrong. Like, honestly, even if you work 24 hours a day, you're not gonna It's how effectively you work that counts, not the sheer hours, it's what you're working on. Are you going the right direction? So keep that in mind.

Joy Nicholson: 41:24

Yeah, I love those success habits. And it's so cool. Because I always dive into the success habits on the show. And it is amazing how when you follow just like being healthy and like I am exactly what you're talking about, like I am on my treadmill every day listening to a podcast or I watch something, you know, like a via a YouTube video on a podcast or something. You know, that's educational. And it is really important to combine the habits and this exactly it because it motivated to keep going until it's finished.

Steven Hoffman: 41:56

Exactly. You'll put in that extra half an hour.

Joy Nicholson: 41:59

Yeah, 100% Agree. Steve, this has been fantastic. How can people reach you? How can they reach out to you and get a hold of your books or you know, just have a conversation?

Steven Hoffman: 42:08

Oh, super easy to reach. just anybody can just go to a founders space comm founder space, they can reach out to me my contact info there. We have my podcasts there all my, you know, different my books, surviving a startup, you know, all of its there. And we have a special offer for your members. So for one of your members, they can win our online starter program. And that's our full three month online starter program. That's a big deal. So you can give that away to one and just let me know who it is. And for the second gift for everybody. This is open to everybody. If you want to learn the 10 commandments of raising venture capital, just go to founders space.com/ten, the number 10.

Joy Nicholson: 42:53

Awesome, thank you. And we will definitely drop the links below. And if you guys haven't done so already, please subscribe to this episode. And share this with other people that can benefit out of this. And, Steve, thank you so much for all the knowledge that you have shared with the audience and with me. And thank you so much for your generous gift to the audience because it ties in with the season gas this season is about the experts sharing their expert knowledge to help you guys grow in scale and just even starting up a business if you don't have one. And thank you so much the for tying in with this with this, I would say a beautiful idea that we have in the world. And you know, I just think it's what you do is absolutely amazing. And I thank you for that. So thank you so much for your time as well.

Thank you Joy. Cheers